Ugarte's Dimension of Fantasy interviews Robert Holmes
Conducted by Ugarte & HerrBearen - August 2003
Robert Holmes was another talented musician whom Sierra was lucky to have hired. His musical scores for the Gabriel Knight series helped establish the games as some of the most acclaimed adventure games ever made. Like other Sierra game musicians, he has had plenty of interest and experience in the world of music. I had the opportunity to interview him and find out more about him as a person. This interview would not be possible without the help of fellow GK fan Robert "The Bear" Beatty. Special thanks go to him for contacting Robert Holmes about doing this interview and contributing questions to this interview. This e-mail interview was done on Thursday, June 19, 2003.
Ugarte&Bear: Hello, Robert. It is a great pleasure to be able to do an interview with you. Any opportunity to do a Q&A with someone who did any kind of work with an adventure game from Sierra is always exciting. We also understand that you have not done too many interviews regarding your work at Sierra with the Gabriel Knight series. We hope this interview will be fun for you. We are sure that everyone will enjoy what you have to share for us.
Ugarte: Tell me about your interest in music. When were you first truly a music lover? Do you have any favorite genres of music, singers, or composers?
Robert: I grew up in Los Angeles during the sixties when rock 'n roll was king and every street had a garage band rehearsing on it. I started funny enough on Accordion and then violin-without much success, and then saw the Beatles on Ed Sullivan and my life was changed forever. From that time on, I was wood shedding on guitar and playing in bands from 6th grade on. I started doing U.S.O. tours as a solo artist in junior high, and from there spent my high school and early
college years playing in several of LA's biggest local bands. One of these was a band called Eulogy which also featured my friend Rusty Anderson, who is now Paul McCartney's guitarist. These bands ranged from power pop, to 15 piece horn
bands, to over the top mega production glam rock outfits. I did a lot of studio work in those days with various folks. They were wild times! In general my musical tastes cover a huge spectrum. Everything rock n' roll from the 1950's-60's and 70's, with a huge nod to British acts like the Beatles and all the other British invasion, to folks like Elton John, David Bowie, Genesis (during the early Peter Gabriel days), YES, and many others. US acts like Billy Joel, CSNY, and Harry Nilsson were large influences as well. Beyond rock'n roll, I have both a huge interest and an educational foundation based on the history of Broadway and key folks like Cole Porter, Rogers and Hammerstein, etc.. and the history of film scoring with giants like Max Steiner, Elmer Bernstein, and others. I love good music in every genre!
Bear: Being a musician myself, who would you consider to be the inspiration for wanting to learn and play a musical instrument, followed by a desire to compose your own orchestrations? We understand from another GK3 fansite, that you "Favor Max Steiner's scoring sensibilities which can be gleaned from his percussion based score." Can you tell us a little bit more about Max Steiner and why you prefer his style? You may include a link if this helps to explain this style in more detail.
Robert: I would have to say Paul McCartney. His body of work still astounds me. In terms of more orchestral work, I would point to Richard Rogers sense of melody and Max Steiner's gift for arrangement. Steiner was a genius at using motifs for characters and locations (think Tara in Gone with the Wind) or using orchestration to manipulate the emotional context of a scene (The main theme from Key Largo). In general he is often regarded as the grandfather (along with Randy Newman's uncle Lionel) of the marriage between film and music from King Kong on....
Ugarte: What kind of experience with music did you have before composing the musical scores for the Gabriel Knight games?
Robert: I covered a lot of my formative background above, but in terms of game scoring, I had studied film scoring in college and done some lower level (in terms of production) scoring work in Hollywood. I was hired by Sierra as a Composer by Mark Seibert who was a great and massively talented guy to work for/with. In those early days I did music for games like Hoyle Classics and many alternate versions of scores for various games and formats.
Bear: Where have your musical studies taken you and what kind of degrees have you earned? Example: Berkley College of Jazz/Boston, Mass. Are you currently continuing Music Theory or teaching others, in between composing?
Robert: My musical education in terms of theory happened mostly in high school and college, and to be honest, I had probably lost or ignored a lot of what I had learned, by the time I got into doing games. Compared to many of the guys from the early stable of Sierra's music department (and what a group we had! - Mark, Chris, Neal, Dan, Aubrey, and Jay were all brilliantly talented and many of them much better educated than I... ) I probably have more in common with someone like McCartney (though I would NEVER compare myself to him), in that he has a very intuitive ear and writing style, and really knows comparatively little theory.
Ugarte: When you first became hired by Sierra to do music for games, did you think that writing music for games would be similar to or different from composing for film and television?
Robert: I didn't know what to expect. I had never seen games like Sierra's before I got there, so it was a whole new world for me. It's always fun to learn something new (I'm currently trying to master ukulele!), and those early days were a constant learning experience of styles, technologies, and process. Many of the guys mentioned earlier in that first music department were very generous in sharing their experience and techniques with me.
Ugarte: For Gabriel Knight I: Sins of the Fathers, what was it like to compose a variety of pieces for different settings and characters in the game?
Robert: GK1 was a kick to write for, because no one had ever done a game in that overall creative style (a nod to Jane's genius), it was new territory and very ripe in terms of texture and drama. The art concepts were so rich and interesting that often, I would only be given a color sketch of a room or location, and I would
write from that.
Bear: How do you feel about fans remixing the musical scores? Do you encourage this type of practice? Or, would you prefer that the fan leave your works alone?
Robert: I think remixing is very cool, and extremely flattering. That my music might
interest someone enough to help spur on their creativity is great, to me. I just
wish I had chances to hear more of the outcome. :)
Ugarte: What can you tell me about the technology available to you when you did the music for Sins of the Fathers?
Robert: We had logs with big sticks, and cat gut strung over wash barrels :) Sometimes it seems that removed from what the technology is capable of now. It was a very embryonic technical space, sampling hadn't happened yet, so it was all midi. And frankly the midi constraints and vehicles were ridiculously limiting and sounded terrible. I really like some of those early GK1 melodies, but I can't stand to listen to them because the midi stuff is so awful. We all did the best we could with the tools we had. Mainly Sierra utilized the Roland Sound Canvas and did other versions to hit the various levels like the notorious SoundBlaster....
Ugarte: Some of the tunes in GK1 relate to the Voodoo content of the story, like the music for the Historical Voodoo Museum and for voodoo ceremonies late in the story. Did you study any kind of African music to help achieve this?
Robert: I listened to a lot of various New Orleans and African sources. One of the benefits of living around Jane is that when she is into a creative idea or texture, like voodoo, or King Ludwig, or whatever-our home and reality becomes permeated with the exploration of that topic, and I am often exposed to books, video, trips, and general discussion on a given topic for sometimes years at a time. :)
Bear: What can you tell me about Music Theory? What can you tell me about those that taught you, Music Theory?
Robert: I'm a big fan of saying that when you learn anything, you should learn the foundations and building blocks (which is what theory gives you), and then let it go and create beyond it. Some of us are to good at letting it go :), but in general, I enjoy music that has an emotional basis more or beyond a basis in musical theory.
Ugarte: For the second GK game, The Beast Within, the design team went for full-motion video (FMV) with actors. Have you gotten to know some of the cast, like Dean Erickson as Gabriel Knight or Peter Lucas as Friedrich Von Glower? (Or Tim Curry, Leah Remini, Mark Hamill, etc.)
Robert: I did get to meet and know some of the cast, but unfortunately, I had already relocated to Seattle at the time-and the shoot was in Oakhurst. So I wasn't as close to folks as Jane was. I did have the good fortune to be involved from my Producer role on GK1 on those great voiceover sessions with Tim and others, and that was a pleasure. Tim Curry is a treat at all levels!
Bear: Do you have any humorous anecdotes or special event involving the actors?
Robert: One story I have in terms of actors was that I remember Jane and I were trying to settle on the cast Gabe for GK1 and were kind of torn about it. For some reason, one of us had to go to the emergency room in Oakhurst one night for a medical issue, and I remember us passionately debating who should play Gabe in the midst of all that goes on in an emergency room. It was pretty comical. We settled on Tim that night, which worked out great, obviously. Another was that when we were shooting the GK2 Opera here at the Moore theatre in Seattle, and the actors were getting pretty tired of lip syncing to the opera music over and over (understandably). I remember one of them sarcastically saying:" Who Wrote this *^%*^?!", I sat quietly in my seat, and didn't respond. :)
Ugarte: For the music of GK2, were there any musical composers that inspired the game's score?
Robert: I tried to have the spirit of Wagner's style inform the GK2 music, but wanted to stay true to my type of melodic approach, so it's a bit of a hybrid I guess. Mainly the use of dark brass and trombones (Lots of trombones...) was a nod to his work. I once visited his grave in Germany, and profusely apologized for the opera and anything I did in his realm. :)
Ugarte: I can imagine that working on the music for Gabriel Knight II was, in some ways, different from working on the music for Gabriel Knight I. Would you like to comment on that?
Robert: One key difference was being able to use samplers and audio instead of midi. Writing the opera as a part of key content within the story was very different as well compared to GK1's underscoring needs. I think the style was more simply rooted in motifs for each character as well, such as Ludwig's theme, and Von Glowers hunt theme.
Ugarte: What makes Gabriel Knight: The Beast Within very unique is that it features an opera that was supposedly written by a well-known 19th century composer, but is, of course, fictional. Was it a real challenge to write this opera compared to other musical pieces for the GK games? And what did you do to make sure the opera looked as if it was really written in the past?
Robert: It was a huge challenge for me. I'm basically a pop influenced writer, so this was pretty heady stuff to me. I remember Jane casually asking one night if I'd write a fake Wagner opera, and I about fell over! But we went to Munich and Germany and soaked up a lot of his influences, stomping grounds, and texture, including seeing a great production of his at the Munich Opera House, and it really helped me sense his particular musical ethic. How well that translated in my work, I'm not sure, but it was an interesting mix of this huge older musical form, and a pop sensibility. (Oh, and don't forget LOTS of Trombones...)
Ugarte: What was it like to work with David Henry on the score for Gabriel Knight III: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned? Would you want to work with David Henry again? Who else would you like to compose, orchestrate and record with?
Robert: Unfortunately, my dual career life as a Producer and composer has meant that I couldn't do as much of the extension of themes into the games as I would like to. In those cases, I've been blessed to have great partners like David and Jay Usher on GK2. David was a real pleasure to work with. He is a very gifted writer and musician, as well as being very flexible and open to my style and issues, in terms of honoring the GK musical approach and yet continuing to evolve it at the same time. I have always been extremely lucky to work with people like David and Jay Usher (on GK2) who bring entirely different and often more advanced skill sets then myself, and are great collaborators in terms of helping me to inject my use of melody or emotion into their strengths and styles. Jay was invaluable as a partner on GK2. The opera would not of succeeded without his wonderful arrangement and conducting skills. I would work with either of those gentlemen in a heart beat. I very much miss working with Jay who is a great friend as well.
Ugarte: All three games have a number of soundbites that originated in GK1. Fans eagerly search for the latest rendition or remix of particular themes. When you first wrote the score for GK1, did you ever think that the game would spawn a successful series of games and that you would end up reusing musical themes from the first game?
Robert: We had no idea if GK1 would be a hit or not. But Jane had a great vision, and we all felt very passionate about bringing that vision to life. Beyond that, I never thought any of it would be reused other than Gabes main theme. I originally thought of that in terms of what his film or TV series theme might be, so in that sense I wanted it to be strong enough in terms of melody to support various incarnations.
Ugarte: Compared to the first Gabriel Knight game, you had more equipment available to create music rich in quality for Gabriel Knight III instead of MIDI tunes from years before. What was this transition like for you?
Robert: For GK2, being able to created truly layered arrangements of samples and textures was very luxurious compared to the midi in GK1! I think I ran out and bought a bunch of new gear to do just that. In GK3, much of what I did was to produce melodic themes that would serve as the thematic content, and David would shape and reuse those as needed within the game. There are some themes like the opening moving/main theme, etc. that I produced fully and they used them as is.
Bear: What makes and models of synths and keyboards do you currently own and what would be the Ultimate Dream Sequencer/Sound Mixer on your wish list?
Robert: I currently have a pretty mixed bag of tools. I have Kurzweils, Roland's, Korgs, EMU, Yamahas, and lots of various outboard tools. I am actually in the process of upgrading some of my gear and my recording system, so well see what I settle on. There's great stuff now from MOTU/Digital Performer, Pro Tools, and Roland. On the keyboard front I like some of the new Novation, Korg, and Roland stuff. There's always WAY too much new gear to be sorted through :) I like the old George Harrison quote, where he says "If we had all these tools you have today, we never would of gotten anything done". There's some wisdom in that.
Ugarte: Of the three different musical scores for the Gabriel Knight games, which one do you feel most proud of or enjoyed making the most?
Robert: I would have to say GK2. It just more emotional and richer to me in it's texture. I can still hear Ludwig's theme, and feel pretty good about the simple emotional power of that piece. But I don't listen to that old stuff very often. It becomes pretty painful in terms of hearing things I wish I'd done differently.
Bear: I've noticed different renditions of the same theme and can understand the desire to create "atmosphere" with each version. But, is this in part, an experiment on different settings, to see if the next one is better than the previous? An example would be the Intro for GK1 or Main Theme. Are there any particular MIDI versions that you prefer over the rest?
Robert: Frankly, It's often just a chance to try something new and reuse a theme that I may not be totally sick of yet :) I liked the reuse of the GK theme between GK1 and GK2 because they were entirely different in approach, mood, and texture. When done that way, I think it's worthwhile. There are others that I don't think succeeded as well.
Ugarte: How much time do you spend each day and overall in order to compose an entire score for a single game? Was there one GK game that required more work with music than the others?
Robert: They were all very different in approach. GK1 was done over the course of many months. Since I was the Producer on that game, I would spend half my day being a Producer, and then spend half my day writing on a keyboard next to my desk. It was a little weird. GK2 was done in a few short weeks. I was actually working on a project as a Producer in England at the time, and traveling a lot-so I ended up having to do it during what vacation time I could manage from my other job... It was a bit harried. GK3 was done as possible, again while I worked my other "day job". I would come home at night and often stay up all night writing in my studio, send off the tapes to David, and go back to my office in the morning.
Bear: What special place do you have or what do you do... to inspire your creative side?
Robert: I have always been a mountain person. Jane and I do a lot of walking and hiking, which helps inspire me. Oakhurst was a great place for that, being next to Yosemite, and Seattle is nice in that you can get into the hills within a few minutes. Beyond that, I have a studio set up in our home where I have all my gear and guitars, and I just hangout up there when I need to get something done musically.
Ugarte: Have you, yourself, been to any of the real-life locations seen in the GK games (i.e. New Orleans, Germany, or Rennes-le-Château)?
Robert: Jane and I traveled to Germany for GK2 research, but I was unable to join her in France for the GK3 stuff. Funny enough, neither of us has ever been to New Orleans! But it's on our list.....
Bear: Fantasy setting: You decide to seek the adventures of life and 'Tramp' your way to the land of your dreams. To far away exotic places, with only one musical instrument case, and a suitcase/backpack. Where would you go and what instrument would you take with you, for all your musical creativity?
Robert: Wow that's tough! I suffer huge schizophrenia between my love of the guitar and my love of piano. But overall, I'd have to say guitar. It's still my main instrument. I would either go to (more schizophrenia here) Bora Bora, A small village I know in the south of England, or a nice little mountain cabin on a tree lined lake somewhere in the mountains.......
Ugarte: While at Sierra, have you met any other Sierra game musicians other than David Henry, like Mark Seibert or Chris Braymen, just to name a few? If so, what are your impressions of them?
Robert: I think I touched on this, but again all the Sierra guys I had the good fortune to know and work with were unbelievably talented, and probably don't get enough credit for blazing many of the trails that gamers take for granted in terms of how music and sound are done in today's games. Mark, Dan, Aubrey, Neal, Chris, Jay, Orpheus...I miss you guys!
Ugarte: It's been a few years since the release of Gabriel Knight III. Have you been disappointed that there were no plans for a fourth Gabriel Knight mystery? If, let's say, a fourth GK game does get planned, would you be eager to create its musical score as you had before?
Robert: Both Jane and I had many hopes that GK would carry on either as a game, a film, or who knows what? It's disappointing that Sierra doesn't currently recognize the value of the series, but someday that might change... We would both love to be involved in a GK4. It's always a treat to do the music for Jane's projects as they are so big in terms of drama, scope, and power. It's fun for us as a couple to get to work together creatively as well! But until that happens we'll have some other good projects to focus on. :)
Ugarte: While you're officially credited as a musician for Gabriel Knight, you did do a little work for other Sierra games, such as brief voiceover work for The Dagger of Amon Ra, the second Laura Bow mystery game. What can you tell me about that? Was there any other work you did for Sierra besides this and GK?
Robert: Boy, I think I've forgotten some of the early games I worked on. Many of them were Mac versions of other folks scores. I mentioned the Hoyle Classic games, and as a Producer I think I worked on a few other titles beyond the GK's like Space Quest, Hoyle, The KQ Collection and others...
Ugarte: Jane Jensen has mesmerized fans not just as a computer game designer, but also as a novelist. How do you feel about Jane as an author of novels, than as a developer/designer of games? Most authors will include people close to them as characters in the story being written. Do you see yourself in any of the written works thus far?
Robert: Occasionally something in her novels is based on an element of our life or world, but it happens more in the games. We were actually dating (and trying to hide it from the team...) during the design phase of GK1, and there are a few conversations between Gabe and Grace that were VERY familiar.... I enjoy seeing that happen. I kid Jane that she gets all her best ideas from me:) Of course, nothing could be farther from the truth.
Ugarte: So what are you doing these days to make a living? Does it involve your skills in music?
Robert: I work as a kind of Executive Producer/Director of Production for a creative agency in Seattle. We do a lot of online work and creative work for clients like Microsoft and others here in the northwest. It's fun as I get to use both sides of my brain, the business and production side, and the creative side. I do occasionally do music for some of our clients for various needs, and I have been involved in some other game activity-but for the most part, Jane is the only game designer who likes my music. :)
Bear: Is there a possiblity that you will be composing the soundtracks for Jane's new game? Or, have there been any offers from any other gaming developer, for your music?
Robert: We are hoping that it will work out for me to do the music for Jane's new game. As always, I am very much looking forward to the possibility of putting music to Jane's magic!
Ugarte: Is there anything you would like to share about your marriage to Jane Jensen, your family life, or your other passions in life?
Robert: Jane and I are very lucky to share a great life together with our beautiful daughter Raleigh, Jane's massive book collections, my guitars, two mean cats, and the worlds biggest basset hound, appropriately named Mosley.
Ugarte: Finally, what would you like to say to Gabriel Knight fans out there who adore the games, enjoy the music that you created for them, and perhaps consider a career in music or game design?
Robert: I want to thank all the fans who have been so gracious in their appreciation of the GK music! Often, music in games is doesn't or even shouldn't be noticed. The GK fans, have from very early on, been great at getting exactly what I hoped for from the music, focusing on the melodies, the emotional aspects, and the relationship between the music and the characters and settings. Thanks so much for listening !!!! To those of you seeking to be involved in music in any shape or application, I can't tell you enough how much music can mean in your life. It makes a great lifelong friend that will always be there for you. Enjoy the path, and good luck!
Ugarte&Bear: Well, Robert, that is all the questions we have. We would like to thank you so much for taking the time to give everyone an insight into your work and you as a person. Gabriel Knight fans, including myself and Bear, will always admire your outstanding work as a musician. We wish you the very best with everything in life.
Last update: October 24, 2007
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